So a Succession fan posted this on the fan page. What a bunch!! Nate is pretty sexy. Tom WAS hot as Mr. Darcy, but not as Tom. Mattson is of course gorgeous…but should get rid of that gold leisure-bomber-jacket he wore in “Tailgate Party.” (And Alexander Skarsgaard picked it out!!) I’d love to have dinner with Ham Burger of “Perry Mason,” but…all I can say is…Justin Kirk really can shape shift while looking exactly the same. Your comments on this delightful bunch of guys?
Objectifying the men: hmmm. Love this. Nate is a principled character (somewhat) and I agree he is sexy. Logan - what we see of him - is so mean, but I imagine being near a man so powerful who is also a narcissist, it must be intoxicating to have him interested. Roman is sexy physically. His suits are gorgeously tailored and he moves like a cheetah. But damaged beyond and vulgar and rude, lol. No. Greg and Tom are both gorgeous, but lacking in any stable center, so they’re just goofy. And Kendall is just....Eeyore? Is that too harsh? Mattsson is a lunatic but, gosh, there is always this underlying uncertainty, like there are layers and layers to uncover before you know him. At my age, Frank and Karl would be my options. I like Frank. Karl is still pretty. Frank, after being with Logan all those years, still seems to have retained some humanity. He’s my guy. Lol.
Eeyore is not too harsh. IMO. But I wanted to ask you if you are able to get into the Anne Boleyn Specials for paid subscribers. I see that you upgraded just a little while ago (and thank you so, so much for that!), so after a couple of them were sent out. They are under the banner heading “Anne Boleyn Special” so you should be able to access them there. Let me know if you have any problem!! And thanks again.
Yes- I can access it. I wish I had known of you when I watched the series. Maybe I will watch it again if it is still offered! I would love to read your comments with it fresh in my mind. I think Natalie Dormer was perfect - bright, charming and fully aware of her powerlessness and the danger she was forced to court.
I cannot know what your view of Succession is. "Strongly encouraged" by my older daughter to watch this series, I've gone through the first two episodes and I am horrified.
On Episode S1E1: Every other word was "fuck", very foul language to say the simplest kinds of things in a metaphoric kind of way, very unlikeable characters -- though with "vulnerability" especially the men. The women in such shows are characteristically harder and meaner than the men -- part of the searing misogyny of this new era. There are also a limited group of motivations, ambition, competition to reach "the top" of whatever -- and real meanness here and there. Very slick, does no one live an old house -- NYC is chock-a-block (literally) with housing built before WW2 and 1 too
Helicopter travel for the whole family. So they skip traffic jams. I know helicopters can save people but since Vietnam I loathe them. But I see it's the lead story in the Style section of the Washington Post ...
S1E2: . It is apparently a British show! -- all the actors doing American accents. It has a to me odd sense of humor -- they are making fun of any
kind of kind or humane behavior. The characters are literally obnoxious and mean a good deal of the time -- endlessly competitive The idea is the old man might die at any moment (they are in an ICU) and they vye for the money left, who will run the firm. One character is there for us to laugh at as he (and also Matthew MacFayden) are ceaselessly sycophantic. I wanted to know what is written a lot about and what people watch (It seems) a lot. The heterosexual relationships are all under terrific strain. No wonder I can't get along in this culture: watching such a program if there are many like this has to be be bad for your moral character ... I ask myself what do viewers think and feel when they watch such a program. Some people will say they don't take it seriously, but you must do while watching it. It reminds me of how youngish women today may say that the present predatory heterosexual norms are things they can deal with and dont matter or shrug.. In one of my classes someone said of that (taking of My Brilliant Friend) they are just refusing to think of feel about what happens to them. Really?
I am now told it's escapist: I can't figure out how Succession is escapist when it is so painful. I do have an explanation: to most people it is not painful. They don't mind the mockery and cruelty -- it amuses them.
Hard for me to summarize in a comment what I think about “Succession.” I agree with you about much of what you say! On the other hand, if you get into the entire series (which it doesn’t sound like you want to!) it starts to feel like a big, dark novel—kind of like “The Forsyte Saga” but for our terrible, terrible times. In any case, it’s a cultural phenomenon and I follow it for that reason alone. But of course you don’t have to! (My husband hates the show.) If you want more detail on my thoughts on the show, I’ve been writing about it every week since I started my substack. If you’re interested, start with my piece on last week’s show.
Obviously I can't read everything & I've been skipping your comments on this serial. I was able to watch Breaking Bad and I'd have to go back and remind myself why I could watch that (as cultural phenomenon) and not this. I probably can't go on as so much in the world is so distressing to see this just reminds me how millions of people seem to approve of the worst kind of evil people to run govts. I have little strengh to endure the mockery of the weak especially, the real meannesses I see in it.
You speak truth. It is hard to like these characters. My husband and I watched the first two episodes and were appalled. Then, idk why, I started watching it again. They set us up by letting us know how dreadful these people are, but after the first few episodes, we begin to get the world these characters inhabit and the stakes they play for. They are no less awful, but they are “our” awful, if that makes sense. Now, in season 4, I am one of those who can’t miss it. Here’s why: I am a British royal history fanatic and I teach Shakespearean acting and drama. One of the writers said to think Richard III and that got me interested in finding parallels in these characters to those. The same happened with Game of Thrones. The people were nasty and vengeful and violent. Then, oh, my! Wars of the Roses? Well, who is whom? I know how that turned out so maybe I can figure this out! And then, you fall in love with the unique characters and why they do what they do, and then you want to see if any of them can be redeemed ( Tyrion leaps to mind). Greg, the sycophant you mentioned, declines morally rather than bringing a moral center, and that has been a nice twist. Not sure we who watch approve their actions. I watch and hope something good can come from all that filth (hint: thinking not likely) but the writing, acting, sets and cinematography are impeccable. I enjoy if for that. All said, though, I am tired of the “f” word.
These are such insightful comments. I went through much the same thing—disgusted at first (especially by the constant banter, much of which I couldn’t “de-code”), but then drawn in. I understand completely what you men by “our” awful—I mean, why did my mother watch daytime soap operas? She became familiar with their world and they became part of her world, and she become invested in the characters. And the comparisons with Shakespearean drama seem apt to me. The tragedies are also peppered with comedy, aren’t they? And at a certain point, I started to understand the way the Succession characters speak—much in the way when I first started to study the Tudors (I wrote a book about Anne Boleyn) I had to learn to decipher the language of the documents. At a certain point, you get “inside” and it comes together. At this point, I love the show and love writing about it. I appreciate how wonderfully it’s written and how brilliantly the characters are drawn. I dislike those fans, though, who view as a chance to “love” and “hate” particular characters, especially since for some reason (being sarcastic here) Shiv has become the only one who truly has legions of haters wishing the worst for her. By the way, so glad to have you here!! I hope you continue to participate!
Agreed! So much hate for Shiv, when she seems the least destructive of the siblings. She is self destructive, but not as willing to topple the world for her own pleasure than Roman, and much less oblivious than Ken. Poor Connor. Lol
I should also say that, once I got mostly used to the f word overuse, there is so much broad comedy. Every time Greg and Tom are together is hilarious. They lean in to comic relief! I understand your revulsion, though. They are selfish, entitled, broken people.
Objectifying the men: hmmm. Love this. Nate is a principled character (somewhat) and I agree he is sexy. Logan - what we see of him - is so mean, but I imagine being near a man so powerful who is also a narcissist, it must be intoxicating to have him interested. Roman is sexy physically. His suits are gorgeously tailored and he moves like a cheetah. But damaged beyond and vulgar and rude, lol. No. Greg and Tom are both gorgeous, but lacking in any stable center, so they’re just goofy. And Kendall is just....Eeyore? Is that too harsh? Mattsson is a lunatic but, gosh, there is always this underlying uncertainty, like there are layers and layers to uncover before you know him. At my age, Frank and Karl would be my options. I like Frank. Karl is still pretty. Frank, after being with Logan all those years, still seems to have retained some humanity. He’s my guy. Lol.
Eeyore is not too harsh. IMO. But I wanted to ask you if you are able to get into the Anne Boleyn Specials for paid subscribers. I see that you upgraded just a little while ago (and thank you so, so much for that!), so after a couple of them were sent out. They are under the banner heading “Anne Boleyn Special” so you should be able to access them there. Let me know if you have any problem!! And thanks again.
Yes- I can access it. I wish I had known of you when I watched the series. Maybe I will watch it again if it is still offered! I would love to read your comments with it fresh in my mind. I think Natalie Dormer was perfect - bright, charming and fully aware of her powerlessness and the danger she was forced to court.
I will! Her story has become even more fascinating with society awakening to the ways that women were utilized by the men who literally owned them.
I cannot know what your view of Succession is. "Strongly encouraged" by my older daughter to watch this series, I've gone through the first two episodes and I am horrified.
On Episode S1E1: Every other word was "fuck", very foul language to say the simplest kinds of things in a metaphoric kind of way, very unlikeable characters -- though with "vulnerability" especially the men. The women in such shows are characteristically harder and meaner than the men -- part of the searing misogyny of this new era. There are also a limited group of motivations, ambition, competition to reach "the top" of whatever -- and real meanness here and there. Very slick, does no one live an old house -- NYC is chock-a-block (literally) with housing built before WW2 and 1 too
Helicopter travel for the whole family. So they skip traffic jams. I know helicopters can save people but since Vietnam I loathe them. But I see it's the lead story in the Style section of the Washington Post ...
S1E2: . It is apparently a British show! -- all the actors doing American accents. It has a to me odd sense of humor -- they are making fun of any
kind of kind or humane behavior. The characters are literally obnoxious and mean a good deal of the time -- endlessly competitive The idea is the old man might die at any moment (they are in an ICU) and they vye for the money left, who will run the firm. One character is there for us to laugh at as he (and also Matthew MacFayden) are ceaselessly sycophantic. I wanted to know what is written a lot about and what people watch (It seems) a lot. The heterosexual relationships are all under terrific strain. No wonder I can't get along in this culture: watching such a program if there are many like this has to be be bad for your moral character ... I ask myself what do viewers think and feel when they watch such a program. Some people will say they don't take it seriously, but you must do while watching it. It reminds me of how youngish women today may say that the present predatory heterosexual norms are things they can deal with and dont matter or shrug.. In one of my classes someone said of that (taking of My Brilliant Friend) they are just refusing to think of feel about what happens to them. Really?
I am now told it's escapist: I can't figure out how Succession is escapist when it is so painful. I do have an explanation: to most people it is not painful. They don't mind the mockery and cruelty -- it amuses them.
Hard for me to summarize in a comment what I think about “Succession.” I agree with you about much of what you say! On the other hand, if you get into the entire series (which it doesn’t sound like you want to!) it starts to feel like a big, dark novel—kind of like “The Forsyte Saga” but for our terrible, terrible times. In any case, it’s a cultural phenomenon and I follow it for that reason alone. But of course you don’t have to! (My husband hates the show.) If you want more detail on my thoughts on the show, I’ve been writing about it every week since I started my substack. If you’re interested, start with my piece on last week’s show.
I am glad though to see you dislike it.
Obviously I can't read everything & I've been skipping your comments on this serial. I was able to watch Breaking Bad and I'd have to go back and remind myself why I could watch that (as cultural phenomenon) and not this. I probably can't go on as so much in the world is so distressing to see this just reminds me how millions of people seem to approve of the worst kind of evil people to run govts. I have little strengh to endure the mockery of the weak especially, the real meannesses I see in it.
You speak truth. It is hard to like these characters. My husband and I watched the first two episodes and were appalled. Then, idk why, I started watching it again. They set us up by letting us know how dreadful these people are, but after the first few episodes, we begin to get the world these characters inhabit and the stakes they play for. They are no less awful, but they are “our” awful, if that makes sense. Now, in season 4, I am one of those who can’t miss it. Here’s why: I am a British royal history fanatic and I teach Shakespearean acting and drama. One of the writers said to think Richard III and that got me interested in finding parallels in these characters to those. The same happened with Game of Thrones. The people were nasty and vengeful and violent. Then, oh, my! Wars of the Roses? Well, who is whom? I know how that turned out so maybe I can figure this out! And then, you fall in love with the unique characters and why they do what they do, and then you want to see if any of them can be redeemed ( Tyrion leaps to mind). Greg, the sycophant you mentioned, declines morally rather than bringing a moral center, and that has been a nice twist. Not sure we who watch approve their actions. I watch and hope something good can come from all that filth (hint: thinking not likely) but the writing, acting, sets and cinematography are impeccable. I enjoy if for that. All said, though, I am tired of the “f” word.
These are such insightful comments. I went through much the same thing—disgusted at first (especially by the constant banter, much of which I couldn’t “de-code”), but then drawn in. I understand completely what you men by “our” awful—I mean, why did my mother watch daytime soap operas? She became familiar with their world and they became part of her world, and she become invested in the characters. And the comparisons with Shakespearean drama seem apt to me. The tragedies are also peppered with comedy, aren’t they? And at a certain point, I started to understand the way the Succession characters speak—much in the way when I first started to study the Tudors (I wrote a book about Anne Boleyn) I had to learn to decipher the language of the documents. At a certain point, you get “inside” and it comes together. At this point, I love the show and love writing about it. I appreciate how wonderfully it’s written and how brilliantly the characters are drawn. I dislike those fans, though, who view as a chance to “love” and “hate” particular characters, especially since for some reason (being sarcastic here) Shiv has become the only one who truly has legions of haters wishing the worst for her. By the way, so glad to have you here!! I hope you continue to participate!
Agreed! So much hate for Shiv, when she seems the least destructive of the siblings. She is self destructive, but not as willing to topple the world for her own pleasure than Roman, and much less oblivious than Ken. Poor Connor. Lol
I should also say that, once I got mostly used to the f word overuse, there is so much broad comedy. Every time Greg and Tom are together is hilarious. They lean in to comic relief! I understand your revulsion, though. They are selfish, entitled, broken people.
It's not much mentioned but Dickens makes fun of vulnerable, weak people, especially men. Why should one watch cruel people?
https://open.substack.com/pub/susanbordo/p/succession-and-reality?r=384ha&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web