May 3, 2023·edited May 3, 2023Liked by Susan Bordo
OMG, this is great! I don't agree with either of you! Well, Susan, maybe some about Shiv, but Tom? Everything about Tom smacks of manipulation and dishonesty. When he says Shiv hurt him, I see it as his fear that Shiv may have dislodged him from his station with the Roys. He's raw ambition from beginning to end.
Looking back, do we know anything about Tom's background? Has he ever given a hint of who he is and why he's the way he is, other than that scene where he talks about really loving money and status?
There's a reason, I think, that the writers wrote the scenes where Tom tricks and humiliates Greg, putting him in positions where he's embarrassed and confused by Tom's back and forth, first praising Greg, then making him look like an idiot. [Edited to add: Tom sees Greg as competition, and since Greg has Roy blood on his side, he could conceivably take over Tom's spot. Tom can't get him fired, but since he's Greg's boss, he could manipulate and unnerve him enough to make him quit on his own.]
They want Tom to be inscrutable and unpredictable, and that's great for the plot, but every time Tom is in the room all I see is a gaslighting narcissist who knows how to pretend to be sensitive or concerned or subservient. Whatever it takes to get him to a position of power.
And that includes his sick relationship with Shiv. He wants her to feel vulnerable. He wants to be seen as her comforter, but he's not above betraying her when it's convenient for him. He counted on Logan seeing him as his daughter's protector, because that meant he'd always have a place in the business.
When Logan turned against the siblings, he forced Tom to take sides, and Tom chose Logan.
Now that Logan is gone he doesn't know who to pander to next. He has strongest ties with Shiv, so Shiv it is. At least for now. If it looks like Shiv is losing power, he'll be outta there.
Shiv, on the other hand, is falling apart. She knows Tom can't be trusted but his touch, that intimacy, is familiar and it's handy. I don't see true love there. They have a long history of using each other, and this is just a continuation. I'll be shocked if Tom doesn't end up betraying Shiv again. I'd be equally shocked if they became a couple again.
This is just what I’d hoped this post would generate! Thank you so much for starting it all off with such a vibrant—and different—reaction to Tom. I can’t say I disagree with you about Tom’s ambition, etc. and what a slime-bag he is at work. I think with Shiv, though, he’s a different person. But then again, maybe you’re right, and I’ve just been conned!!
I think this is what makes this series so compelling. It's not predictable! The writers are master manipulators themselves--we're feeling things for people who should be considered the scum of the earth. The unredeemable. Every time we think one thing about them something comes along that makes us have to rethink it. And we can even grow to like them!
There are so many cool things about this "experiment" of having a male/female conversation about the fascinating relationship Shiv and Tom portray. I loved Handy Barker's reference to Shiv as a broken sunflower, and then another time he mentioned a hummingbird. Both Bordo and Barker's writings are so evocative. I enjoyed when Bordo brought in mentions of other, older films with couples in them. Personally, I felt I understood in some visceral way why Shiv has to be so punitive after Tom's betrayal. Sure, she's an amazing tyrant in other ways, but after the betrayal she just can't "hold" the repressed feelings of abandonment which likely characterized her childhood. She has to act out. And she's SO good at it..
Yeah, that betrayal was shocking and awful. But it’s also the kind of thing these people do to each other all the time. (Shiv herself offers Tom up to take the fall about the ship scandal.) So in a way that horrible business stuff is “baked into” their characters, and I can understand why Tom would feel the need to protect himself. It’s one of those situations where you can see it both ways—especially after Tom honestly tells her why.
OMG, this is great! I don't agree with either of you! Well, Susan, maybe some about Shiv, but Tom? Everything about Tom smacks of manipulation and dishonesty. When he says Shiv hurt him, I see it as his fear that Shiv may have dislodged him from his station with the Roys. He's raw ambition from beginning to end.
Looking back, do we know anything about Tom's background? Has he ever given a hint of who he is and why he's the way he is, other than that scene where he talks about really loving money and status?
There's a reason, I think, that the writers wrote the scenes where Tom tricks and humiliates Greg, putting him in positions where he's embarrassed and confused by Tom's back and forth, first praising Greg, then making him look like an idiot. [Edited to add: Tom sees Greg as competition, and since Greg has Roy blood on his side, he could conceivably take over Tom's spot. Tom can't get him fired, but since he's Greg's boss, he could manipulate and unnerve him enough to make him quit on his own.]
They want Tom to be inscrutable and unpredictable, and that's great for the plot, but every time Tom is in the room all I see is a gaslighting narcissist who knows how to pretend to be sensitive or concerned or subservient. Whatever it takes to get him to a position of power.
And that includes his sick relationship with Shiv. He wants her to feel vulnerable. He wants to be seen as her comforter, but he's not above betraying her when it's convenient for him. He counted on Logan seeing him as his daughter's protector, because that meant he'd always have a place in the business.
When Logan turned against the siblings, he forced Tom to take sides, and Tom chose Logan.
Now that Logan is gone he doesn't know who to pander to next. He has strongest ties with Shiv, so Shiv it is. At least for now. If it looks like Shiv is losing power, he'll be outta there.
Shiv, on the other hand, is falling apart. She knows Tom can't be trusted but his touch, that intimacy, is familiar and it's handy. I don't see true love there. They have a long history of using each other, and this is just a continuation. I'll be shocked if Tom doesn't end up betraying Shiv again. I'd be equally shocked if they became a couple again.
This is just what I’d hoped this post would generate! Thank you so much for starting it all off with such a vibrant—and different—reaction to Tom. I can’t say I disagree with you about Tom’s ambition, etc. and what a slime-bag he is at work. I think with Shiv, though, he’s a different person. But then again, maybe you’re right, and I’ve just been conned!!
I think this is what makes this series so compelling. It's not predictable! The writers are master manipulators themselves--we're feeling things for people who should be considered the scum of the earth. The unredeemable. Every time we think one thing about them something comes along that makes us have to rethink it. And we can even grow to like them!
I'm completely in awe of those writers.
There are so many cool things about this "experiment" of having a male/female conversation about the fascinating relationship Shiv and Tom portray. I loved Handy Barker's reference to Shiv as a broken sunflower, and then another time he mentioned a hummingbird. Both Bordo and Barker's writings are so evocative. I enjoyed when Bordo brought in mentions of other, older films with couples in them. Personally, I felt I understood in some visceral way why Shiv has to be so punitive after Tom's betrayal. Sure, she's an amazing tyrant in other ways, but after the betrayal she just can't "hold" the repressed feelings of abandonment which likely characterized her childhood. She has to act out. And she's SO good at it..
Yeah, that betrayal was shocking and awful. But it’s also the kind of thing these people do to each other all the time. (Shiv herself offers Tom up to take the fall about the ship scandal.) So in a way that horrible business stuff is “baked into” their characters, and I can understand why Tom would feel the need to protect himself. It’s one of those situations where you can see it both ways—especially after Tom honestly tells her why.